Compatibility topics

Questions and answers for COW Macintosh and Windows
FreeRepublic
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

Sorry about the small diagram!

It occurred to me that Build 112, or simply a new COW Express download, might solve all problems.

I tried again. I used the Everyman Chess PGN file for David Vigorito's book Attacking Chess King's Indian Defense vol 1. It imported quickly into COW Express. I played out the start of the Mar Del Plata variation: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5. Here black must move his queen knight. The COW Express file shows the correct candidate 8...Ne7, plus 4 bogus candidate moves by the king knight! So the pgn is garbled somehow.

I have not had a fault-free import yet from Everyman Chess.

Modern-chess.com (MC) provides PGN files that import perfectly every time. An MC import into COW is a gem - instant productivity. (MC had a 25% off sale over Christmas and I expect one for Easter, as they did that last year.)
FreeRepublic
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

"I have not had a fault-free import yet from Everyman Chess."

I have to correct that. My Great Predecessors by Kasparov seems to have read in just fine. I have had trouble with the opening books from Everyman Chess.
FreeRepublic
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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

I'll try this again!
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FreeRepublic
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Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

Everyman Chess has reduced the price of two of their E-book bundles: Starting Out (3) which is 10 books for $45, and Starting out (4) which is 5 books for $25. At $5 or less a book, I could not refuse. They are older titles, but explanations, rules of thumb, and good games annotated well are timeless.

So I went ahead and got these electronic bundles. They come in CBV and PGN formats only. Kindle and E-Pub formats are not provided. So far, I have uploaded 6 books (PGN files) into COW Pro and I wanted to report on the experience. They upload right away. The ideal is that an entire book be uploaded without mistakes. That goal is mostly met. Some side-variations did not load. Also, there are some errors. For example, Starting Out the Ruy Lopez proceeds with 1e4 e5 2Nf3 Nc6 3Bb5 of course, but also includes 3Nd4 as a candidate move with commentary on the Bird defense (3Bb5 Nd4).
FreeRepublic
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

FreeRepublic wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:57 am I'll try this again!
So I got the image to look right! (See Post of Feb 20th, 2020). Looking at the COW image, only the first candidate, 9...Ne7, is valid. The other four are bogus; they each loses a piece! The PGN import is garbled for some reason. It is not just this file. Every opening book (PGN file) that I have from Everyman Chess has this problem.

I will assume that this is an Everyman Chess problem. I have no problem importing a book from Modern Chess (www.modern-chess.com). Their PGN files import flawlessly into Chess Opening Wizard. So you can take this as a plug for Modern Chess.

Books imported from Everyman Chess (EC) are very frustrating to me. About 80% of the book imports without a problem. But the dropped and bogus lines keep cropping up making the import useless. Imports are tantalizingly close - but the cigar keeps exploding in my face. Meanwhile, Everyman Chess CBV files import to another application without fail.

I've tried without success to send a pgn excerpt to Mike and the team. Operator error, no doubt. I do not think it ethical to send an entire book (PGN file). I suggest you buy an opening e-book from Everyman Chess and see the problem for yourself. I think it would be a boon for COW if you could import the EC PGN files without error. Importing their CBV files would be an equivalent solution.

I've tried a lot of software. The optimum, in my opinion, would be to see the book on the left side of the screen (Kindle or ePub format) and a matching COW window on the right side of the screen.

Everyman Chess and Modern Chess are major e-Book publishers. There are others, but I pass them by as their solutions are proprietary and not satisfactory given the high expectations I've acquired as a BookUp user.

A proper import of EC books into COW would make 310 e-books available to users or COW:
https://everymanchess.com/collections/ebooks
FreeRepublic
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

As I've mentioned before, some PGN imports work, and some do not. Books, PGN files, from Modern-chess.com import flawlessly. Custom PGN game downloads from Chess Assistant import fine into COW. Chess Informant annotated games, in ChessBase, download fine, then import well into COW.

With only one exception, opening books from Everyman chess do not import satisfactorily.

First the good news. The Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna from Everyman imports almost perfectly into COW. I can't fault COW here. Some of the book's text comments are found in the introduction to a section. Similar comments are found in the theory section, then again in the annotated games section. So some comments become a little jumbled. Also sometimes they comment about a move before, and sometime after, displaying the move. I open the book as a Kindle book (screen captures essentially) and as a COW eBook, side by side. So it's not too hard to clean up the text. It's kind of a mindless exercise, but it takes a surprising amount of time for an entire book. Still, I learn some of the material along the way. Move imports are perfect.

The bad news comes from all other Everyman opening books. Imports are, maybe, 80-90% right, making them useless. By the way, the books import great into the Everyman game viewer, available on tablets only. So what goes wrong in the COW import of these PGN files? You will have buy some of these books and see for yourself. Until you get this resolved, I can only speculate.

Everyman does something in their books that is a little strange. It has to do with how they introduce, or discuss a position. They provide their comment in the form of a move. It goes something like this:

12-- This is a tricky position.
12Ra3
12Rd3!
12Bg5

On move 12, they have have three candidates. However to COW, it may appear that they have four candidates, the first of which is non-playable. This could mess up PGN import.

This is all very frustrating to me as I would prefer to use COW. As it is, I am becoming more and more proficient using ChessBase as the same books, in CBV format, import flawlessly.
FreeRepublic
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

As noted before PGN files from Modern-Chess import flawlessly. I have been harsh as regards Everyman Chess PGN files. That was due to my experience opening older Dangerous Weapons and Starting Out titles. However today I tested several of their Opening Repertoire books and they imported just fine.
FreeRepublic
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

FreeRepublic wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:32 pm I have been harsh as regards Everyman Chess PGN files. That was due to my experience opening older Dangerous Weapons and Starting Out titles. However today I tested several of their Opening Repertoire books and they imported just fine.
The preceding was not totally correct. Basically older titles have more problems. Newer titles have fewer problems. In going over an Opening Repertoire book in COW, the line I was following was dropped.

Attacking Chess, King's Indian Defense does not import well into COW, as covered previously in this thread. I isolated one problem. Chapter 7 is on other 9th moves by white. The problem is in the introduction to chapter 7. I wanted to send you an extract for your review, however I am told that it has an invalid extension. Consequently, I can only suggest that you buy an older Everyman Chess title, and see for yourself.
FreeRepublic
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2010.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Mar del Plata"]
[Black "Other 9th Moves"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "E97"]
[Annotator "David Vigorito"]
[PlyCount "17"]
[EventDate "2010.??.??"]
[SourceTitle "AC: The King's Indian, V"]
[Source "Everyman Chess"]
[SourceDate "2011.07.11"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2011.07.11"]
[SourceQuality "1"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5
Ne7 {In this chapter we look at moves other than 9 Ne1, 9 Nd2 and 9 b4. The
first of these, 9 Bg5, seems illogical, but it has had its bouts of popularity.
9 Bd2 was once a main line, but it seems too passive for modern tastes.
Finally, both 9 a4 and 9 Kh1 look a bit indulgent, but they should not be
underestimated. Although these various lines are not considered to be
theoretically dangerous, they all have their ideas and Black should still be
well prepared.} 9. Z0 ({A:} 9. Bg5) ({B:} 9. Bd2) ({C:} 9. a4) ({D:} 9. Kh1) ({
There are a few other moves to consider, although they are rather experimental:
a)} 9. Qc2 {looks a bit pointless, but it cannot be too bad:} Nh5 (9... Nd7) ({
and} 9... Ne8 {are possible as well}) 10. g3 (10. b4 {is Epishin's line
considered at the beginning of Line B in Chapter 5}) 10... f5 11. Ng5 {was P.
Eljanov-M.Al Sayed, Khanty-Mansiysk 2009. Here} Nf6 {looks sensible and best.})
({b)} 9. Be3 {rather invites} Ng4 {(otherwise White will play 10 Nd2), but it
is not so bad:} 10. Bg5 ({after} 10. Bd2 f5 11. Ng5 Nf6 {the position is the
same as the main line of the Bayonet, but White has played Bd2 rather than b4
and Re1, and after} 12. exf5 Nxf5 $1 {Black is fine}) 10... f6 ({worse is}
10... h6 11. Bh4 f5 12. Nd2 Nf6 13. f3 g5 14. Bf2 f4 15. c5 {with the
initiative}) 11. Bh4 (11. Bd2 f5 {is the same as 10 Bd2}) {and now after} 11...
g5 12. Bg3 Nh6 {we reach a line of the Gligoric where White has castled rather
prematurely – see note 'c' to White's 12th move in Line B1 of Chapter 9.}) ({c)
} 9. Rb1 {is undoubtedly playable, but it should not be too scary for Black
theoretically. When faced with a move like 9 Rb1 Black must mainly rely on his
understanding of the Mar del Plata in general, as he did in E.Lobron-L.Brunner,
German League 1990:} Nh5 ({this is very logical; instead} 9... Nd7 10. b4 a5
11. a3 Kh8 12. Be3 $1 Ng8 13. c5 $1 axb4 14. axb4 f5 15. Ng5 {favoured White
in I.Nikolaidis-A.Jankovic, Leros 2010}) 10. Ne1 Nf4 11. Nd3 Nxe2+ 12. Qxe2 f5
{and there was a more or less normal-looking position similar to some found in
Line A, below.}) ({d)} 9. Nh4 {looks quite extravagant, but it is playable too:
} Ne8 ({after} 9... Nd7 10. g3 f5 11. exf5 Nxf5 12. Nxf5 {we can see some
point to White's idea following} Rxf5 ({or} 12... gxf5 13. f4) 13. Bg4) 10. g3
({another point to Black's 9th move is that it covers the c7-pawn, so} 10. Be3
{can be met by} Nxd5 $1) {, and now I would prefer} 10... f5 ({rather than}
10... Bh3 11. Re1 f5 12. exf5 Nxf5 13. Nf3 $5 h6 14. Ne4 {when the h3-bishop
was a bit misplaced in G.Hertneck-W.Watson, German League 1994}) 11. exf5 Nxf5
12. Nf3 Nf6 13. Bd3 h6 {with an equal position in C.Bauer-F.Libiszewski,
Montpellier 2004.}) *
FreeRepublic
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Re: Compatibility topics

Post by FreeRepublic »

The preceding PGN contains:

9. Z0 ({A:} 9. Bg5) ({B:} 9. Bd2) ({C:} 9. a4) ({D:} 9. Kh1) ({
There are a few other moves to consider, although they are rather experimental:
a)} 9. Qc2
etc.

I think the problem starts with "9. Z0". Going to ChesBase or the Everyman reader on a tablet, this shows as" 9. --" It is an introduction.

Also this may also be a case of be spaghetti PGN. I could show you a much worse example of spaghetti PG from an Everyman book on the Italian game.

In any case, the preceding PGN imports badly into COW. There are many more examples from older Everyman products and even some newer products. If COW code can be revised to address ZO, as shown above, that might solve the problem and render dozens of additional titles available to COW users.
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